’ve Just Started Dating Again and Would Like to Meet Several People to Find the Best Fit for Me
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- Total Posts 2164
Hi Steve
i'one thousand sure the government will be the terminal to admit to some other piece of "gesture" legislation with no coherent underlying policy.
however, it's an ill current of air that blows nobody any good – i tin see tax directorate having a field twenty-four hours with the loopholes.
best regards
wit ÂÂÂ
- Total Posts 2164
Could you good folk delight explain a few things to me almost the Ceremonious Partnership Human action?
<br>First, if its supposed to exist the gay equivalent of union, why is there no requirement that the civil partnership be consummated ?
<br>Second, why is a civil partnership prohibited betwixt nearly the same levels of consanguinity as a marriage? ÂÂÂ
<br>Third – which is the effect and patently the purpose of the Act judging by all the cocky-congratulatory basking in "right-on" credentials of its supporters (even if the sexual activity role has not actually been put in writing and so left the odd loophole) – why should the tax system be subsidising domesticated sexual relationships, whether they're between hets or homs?   ÂÂÂ
Relationships which carry  greater chance of domestic violence than among those not in such relationships?
<br>And why is no similar pension treatment / similar exemptions from inheritance revenue enhancement / majuscule gains tax made available eg for a brother caring for his terminally ill sister , or a kid for a parent or vice versa ?
<br>Fourth, what has the Civil Partnership Human action got to do with kids?
Fifty-fifty in a wedlock, for a long time now things like support/ adoption/ treatment of kids has been made separate from  the support/relationship/ rights as betwixt the spouses themselves –  the 2 don't go mixed together.   Adoption continues to exist  regulated past  the Adoption Act.
<br>many cheers
best regards
wit<br>
- Full Posts 2164
In that location's an Australian victim of July 7 very unhappy to find himself on the front page of The Sun, with the paper putting words in his oral fissure in support of Blair:
http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Aussie … 75060.html
best regards
wit
- Total Posts 2164
stevedvg,
your points were well taken by Mr Dalrymple, who said elsewhere in his piece:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
According to Le Monde, they marched in homage to the deceased on the mean solar day following the rioting. ÂÂÂ
Were they heroes of the resistance,  then?  If so, resistance to what? ÂÂÂ
To social security, social housing, and the mobile phones with which some of the rioters were reported to accept called in reinforcements from elsewhere? ÂÂÂ
To the inflexibility of France'south labour laws, which protect those already in employment just prevent the unemployed from finding work?
The deaths were a tragedy to those who loved them but……it is difficult to see anything in their comport worthy of homage.
How widespread is disorder in the suburbs of French towns and cities?  The interior government minister Nicolas Sarkozy has built a career on emphasising its scope.  In an interview with Le Monde he once said that nine,000 constabulary vehicles had been stoned in the previous ten months, and that betwixt twenty and 40 cars were burnt out every night in France.  Certainly, the latter figure is not an exaggeration: every suburb worth its salt is littered with the carcasses of burnt-out cars.  If Uk is the car-theft champion of the world, France is the vehicle-arson champion.
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All of this written very early in events and before they became "news". ÂÂÂ
The theme of his short article is actually how the French decry anything Anglo-Saxon just cease upwardly following information technology,  before getting into "they even have small riots like ours".
Non sure what he'll say to the way things accept now developed but he ended his piece with:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
In defence of French social underdevelopment, however, it must be said that arson is much less likely to bother members of the French suburbia.  In French republic, your automobile will not be burnt out unless yous are at least teetering on the edge of relative poverty…..United kingdom of great britain and northern ireland is a much more egalitarian social club than French republic, whose criminality is so much better zoned.
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<br>Of course, all kinds of interests outside, as well as within, France are now coming to put their own spin on events.  ÂÂÂ
The BBC review of Mid-East printing has comments from Turkish and Iranian papers which seem to say rather more than about the commenters than anything else:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/one/hi/world/middle … 418256.stm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Iran'south Hamshahri
Following recent riots in France, social experts opined that these incidents could accept been predicted. Discrimination in France – particularly pressures over immigrants and Muslims – have fanned the flames of bigotry while Jews enjoy total freedom in the country. Such incidents are expected in other Western countries which are based on secular values.
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plus ca alter
best regards
wit
- Full Posts 2164
Interestingly, there's a piece about Clichy-sous-Bois by the inner-city chronicler Theodore Dalrymple tucked abroad quietly in final calendar week'southward Spectator, clearly written before they became any kind of news beyond the immediate locality:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It's a suburb of Paris, social housing territory, and social housing, in modern societies at least, means hating behaviour.  Such areas are, in effect, riots waiting to happen.
The cause of the riot…was the expiry of two youths and the severe burns of another.  They apparently formed members of a grouping of xv who were peacefully breaking into a workshop when the law arrived and arrested 6 of them.
They fled and took refuge in an electricity transformer by climbing over two walls complete with eloquent notices that millions of volts were bad for you, where two of them were electrocuted to death and one suffered severe burns.  The two dead were of Turkish and Malian extraction..Peradventure the new methods of teaching had left them unable to read, at least at speed.
The police felt information technology politic, in order to calm the situation, to issue a statement to the effect that the three  were not being cased 'physically' at the fourth dimension of their sanctuary in the installation of Electricite de France – merely, as the good book says, the guilty fleeth where no human being pursueth.
Alas, the constabulary'due south sensitivity did not calm the situation.  Rioting at the terrible injustice done to the 3 youths ensued, kindergartens and schools were stoned in natural effect of their martyrdom, and 28 cars were burnt.  The fact that the cars probably belonged to poor inhabitants of the quartier did non inhibit the rioters, or even requite them pause; in such a state of affairs it is self-expression that counts. ÂÂÂ
A shot was fired at one of the armoured vehicles carrying the forces of law if not of club, and pierced its armour: a testimony to the increasing fire-power of the slums.
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It goes on to say that the imam of the area said that arrests there were often potent-armed and that therefore youths felt humiliated past them.  Nonetheless you take to wonder how many of them come quietly with "it’southward a fair cop, guv".
After noting that "they marched in homage to the deceased on the twenty-four hour period following the rioting", he observes that "the deaths of the two were a tragedy to those who loved them, of class, and it is tragic likewise that youths feel that breaking into workshops gives meaning to life, but fifty-fifty allowing for the impetuosity of youth its difficult to see anything in their comport worthy of homage".
Information technology has echoes of those parents in the Great britain who complain that a great injustice has happened when their kids steal a car, speed information technology, and kill themselves in a predictable crash.  In their eyes it genuinely all becomes the fault of the police force and club: no sense of free will or their own responsibility in whatever of information technology.
More the consequence of  social decomposition and creating and sustaining a (now not so) underclass, than a racial outcome. ÂÂÂ
You'll see it every day in inner-urban center magistrates courts, but as in the inner-metropolis hospitals and prisons where Mr Dalrymple practises his mean solar day job.  ÂÂÂ
all-time regards
wit<br>
- Total Posts 2164
…and beware the "after the event" texts:
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/xi/ … 81792.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>Superglued genitals: she's stuck on you
A United states of america human being is suing his ex-girlfriend in for more $40,600 for supergluing his genitals to his belly.
Kenneth Slaby of Greensburg, Pennsylvania, broke up with Gail O'Toole in 1999, after dating for ten months.
Slaby then began dating someone else but, co-ordinate to the lawsuit, O'Toole invited him over to her abode on May vii, 2000, where he fell asleep.
When he woke up, Slaby found that O'Toole had glued his genitals to his abdomen, glued his buttocks together and spelled out a profanity on his back in nail polish.
O'Toole allegedly told him it was payback for their breakup, and he had to walk well-nigh ii kilometres to a petrol station to phone call for assistance.
"This was not but some petty domestic squabble," Slaby's lawyer Grey Pratt said.
O'Toole had pleaded guilty to misdemeanour set on and served half dozen months' probation, but her ex-boyfriend is now suing for her damages.
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best regards
wit
- Full Posts 2164
Hi Jim JTS
The Education Committee of the Scottish Assembly carrying out the Enquiry into the Purposes of Scottish Pedagogy has already warned that :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
…too much attention to Scottish identity could be narrowing…..Scots be brought to see people in other parts of the world as their equals: …..not to be ….patronising
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http://www.scottish.parliament.u.k./busin … 1-02.htm#two
If that signals the end for Wha's Like United states? and the N-Korean-style history books north of the border which seem to inform information technology, I'm certain nosotros both hold that can but be a good thing :biggrin:
All-time regards
wit<br>
- Full Posts 2164
Jim JTS,
Just to show that this forum is dissimilar others and that in that location'due south a first time for everything:
<br>CORRECTED PER Block CAPITALS:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>Wha's Like Usa?, by  T Anderson Cairns.
The boilerplate Englishman in the dwelling house he calls his castle, slips into his national costume-a shabby raincoat- patented by Pharmacist Charles Macintosh from Glasgow, Scotland. <br>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
MAYBE MACINTOSH CLAIMED THE PATENT,  BUT HE TOOK THE TECHNOLOGY FOR THE MAC FROM THE ENGLISH INVENTOR THOMAS HANCOCK, FOUNDER OF THE BRITISH RUBBER Industry.
http://inventors.about.com/library/inve … lastic.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>Enroute to his office he strides along the English lane, surfaced past John Macadam of Ayr, Scotland. <br>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>NOT SO. ÂÂÂ
MACADAMIZED ROADS (IE ONES WITH SMALL STONES) WERE Adequate FOR Utilise By HORSES AND CARRIAGES OR COACHES, Just THEY WERE VERY DUSTY AND DID Non HOLD UP TO HIGHER SPEED MOTOR VEHICLE Utilise.
PASSING A TARWORKS  IN 1901, East PURNELL HOOLEY OBSERVED A BARREL OF TAR HAD SPILLED ON THE ROADWAY, AND IN AN ATTEMPT TO REDUCE THE MESS, GRAVEL HAD BEEN DUMPED ON Top OF Information technology. THE Area WAS REMARKABLY DUST-Complimentary COMPARED TO THE SURROUNDING ROAD.
THIS Ascertainment INSPIRED HOOLEY TO DEVELOP AND PATENT TARMAC IN BRITAIN AND, LATER, THE Usa. ÂÂÂ
HE CALLED HIS Visitor TAR MACADAM (PURNELL HOOLEY'Southward PATENT) SYNDICATE LIMITED, BUT UNFORTUNATELY HE HAD TROUBLE SELLING HIS Production AS HE WAS Not A VERY COMPETENT Man of affairs.
HIS COMPANY WAS SOON BOUGHT OUT BY THE WOLVERHAMPTON MP, SIR ALFRED HICKMAN, THE OWNER OF A STEELWORKS WHICH PRODUCED Big QUANTITIES OF Waste SLAG.
THE TARMAC COMPANY WAS RELAUNCHED AND BECAME AN Immediate SUCCESS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarmac
<br>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>He drives an English car fitted with tyres invented past John Boyd Dunlop, Veterinary Surgeon of Dreghorn, Scotland. <br><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Non SO. ÂÂÂ
APART FROM THERE Existence FEW English CARS (AND NO SCOTS CARS), DUNLOP HAD MOVED TO BELFAST IN 1867 AND DID NOT INVENT THE TYRE UNTIL 1888. ÂÂÂ
ALL DEVELOPMENT AND INVENTION OF THE PNEUMATIC TYRE WAS Past JOHN BOYD DUNLOP OF BELFAST, NORTHERN IRELAND.
http://www.ulsterhistory.co.u.k./johndunlop.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>At the office he receives the mail begetting adhesive stamps invented by John Chalmers, Bookseller and Printer of Dundee, Scotland. <br><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
NOT And so.
THE Get-go ADNESIVE Stamp – THE PENNY Black – WAS INVENTED BY ROWLAND Loma, AN English language SCHOOLMASTER.
http://inventors.about.com/library/inve … stamps.htm
<br>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>During the solar day he uses the phone invented by Alexander Graham Bong, born in Edinburgh, Scotland.<br><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Bong WON THE RACE TO THE PATENT OFFICE BY A FEW HOURS – BUT ELISHA GRAY OF CHICAGO HAD INVENTED It INDEPENDENTLY AT THE SAME TIME. ÂÂÂ
http://inventors.about.com/library/inve … ephone.htm
<br>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br> At dwelling house in the evening his daughter pedals her cycle invented past Kirkpatrick Macmillan, Blacksmith of Thornhill, Dumfriesshire, Scotland. <br><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
NOT SO.
MANY INVENTORS OF THE BICYCLE BEFORE AND AFTER HIM.
HE INVENTED THE FIRST WITH FOOT PEDALS, BUT NEVER PATENTED It AND Information technology WASN'T HIS VERSION THAT CAUGHT ON.
THE MODERN BICYCLE WAS INVENTED IN 1860 By ERNEST MICHAUX.
http://inventors.well-nigh.com/library/inve … icycle.htm
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/invent … ycle.shtml
<br>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>He watches the news on T.5. an invention of John Logie Baird of Helensburgh, Scotland ……..<br>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
NO.
BAIRD WAS I OF SEVERAL INVOLVED IN MECHANICAL TELEVISION, WHICH WAS QUICKLY SUPPLANTED By ELECTRONIC TELEVISION.
http://inventors.about.com/library/inve … Television
THE INVENTOR OF MODERN ELECTRONIC Boob tube IS PHILO TAYLOR FRANSWORTH, FROM UTAH. ÂÂÂ
http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae408.cfm
<br>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>…..and hears an item about the U.S. Navy founded by John Paul Jones of Kirkbean, Scotland. <br><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
WELL……A FOUNDER, PERHAPS – BUT Once again Merely SOME Time Subsequently HE HAD EMIGRATED TO THE US.
http://www.usa-patriotism.com/tribute/h … pjones.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>Nowhere tin can an Englishman turn to escape the ingenuity of the Scots…..<br><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
…..FOR MAKING DODGY CLAIMS TO PROMOTE A NATIONALISTIC AGENDA? ÂÂÂ
MOREOVER, CLAIMS WHICH It IS UNLIKELY THAT MANY OF THE Splendid INDIVIDUALS NAMED WOULD THEMSELVES HAVE MADE IN SUCH TERMS?
<br>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>He has by now been reminded too much of Scotland and in desperation he picks up his Bible, only to detect that the starting time man mentioned in the good book is a Scot-King James VI-who authorised its translation. <br><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
<br>Ane  TRANSLATION Amongst MANY  –  THOUGH ADMITTEDLY THE ONLY ONE TO  OMIT THE WORD "NOT" FROM THE SEVENTH COMMANDMENT (THOU SHALT COMMIT ADULTERY).
http://www.slipups.com/items/901.html
<br>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>He could take to drink simply the Scots make the best in the world. <br><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
You lot MEAN IF You EXCLUDE THE "E" FROM THE Proper name ?
<br>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>He could take a rifle and stop it all but the breech-loading rifle was invented by Captain Patrick Ferguson of Pitfours, Scotland. <br><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
…..BIT OF A STRETCH THAT 1: LONG OVERTAKEN AND A FOOTNOTE IN HISTORY.
Wait ELSEWHERE FOR THE INVENTORS OF TODAY'South GUNS.
http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blgun.htm
http://inventors.nearly.com/gi/dynamic/o … owning.htm
http://inventors.about.com/od/cstartinv … volver.htm
<br>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>If he escaped death, he could find himself on an operating tabular array injected with Penicillin discovered by Sir Alexander Fleming of Darvel, Scotland, <br>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Non SO.
IT WAS Actually Beginning DISCOVERED BY FRENCHMAN ERNEST DUCHESNE IN 1896.
IT WAS REDISCOVERED IN 1928 Past SIR ALEXANDER FLEMING OF  ST MARYS Hospital LONDON.
HIS REDISCOVERY SIMILARLY THREATENED TO MEAN NOTHING, AND FOR 10 YEARS Information technology LAY ON THE SHELF UNTIL HOWARD FLOREY  AND ERNST Chain DEVELOPED It, AND ANDREW MOYER PATENTED IT TO GET IT INTO MASS PRODUCTION.
http://inventors.about.com/library/inve … cillin.htm
<br>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>and given Chloroform, and anaesthetic discovered by Sir James Young Simpson, Obstetrician and Gynaecologist of Bathgate, Scotland. <br><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Not SO.
IT WAS DISCOVERED IN JULY 1831 BY AMERICAN PHYSICIAN SAMUEL GUTHRIE (1782-1848); AND INDEPENDENTLY A FEW MONTHS Later on BY FRENCHMAN EUGÃÆ'ˆNE SOUBEIRAN (1797-1859) AND JUSTUS VON LIEBIG (1803-73) IN GERMANY. CHLOROFORM WAS NAMED AND CHEMICALLY CHARACTERISED IN 1834 Past JEAN-BAPTISTE DUMAS (1800-84). ITS ANAESTHETIC PROPERTIES WERE NOTED EARLY IN 1847 BY MARIE-JEAN-PIERRE FLOURENS (1794-1867).
http://www.general-anaesthesia.com/imag … roform.htm
WHAT SIMPSON DID WAS TO PERFORM – ON HIMSELF – THE Beginning NARCOSIS USING CHOLOROFORM, AND And so INTRODUCE ITS Utilise INTO OBSTETRICS AND OTHER AREAS.
http://www.full general-amazement.com/chloroform.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>Out of the anaesthetic he would find no comfort in learning that he was as safety as the Depository financial institution of England founded by William Paterson of Dumfries, Scotland. <br><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
YOU CAN HAVE THAT One – THOUGH Once again IT HAPPENED FAR FROM SCOTLAND AND HE WAS OUT Within A Twelvemonth.
http://www.nndb.com/people/625/000096337/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>Perhaps his but remaining promise would be to get a transfusion of guid Scottish blood which would entitle him to inquire-
Wha's Like U.s.? <br><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
There seem to be two sides to Scotland – the  loud 'Wha's like u.s.a.' mentality ("chip on both shoulders") on the one paw,  and the quietly confident and IMO more than bonny 'We're a' Jock Tamson's bairns' mentality on the other.  <br>It seems a compassion when those of the onetime persuasion seek to hijack the names and reputations of the latter.
off to go my can chapeau now.
best regards
wit<br>
- Total Posts 2164
Ian
Do you take that at that place are some things about which yous know more me, and others about which I know more than than you ?
If so, do yous have that on some things your opinion will be better informed than mine, and that on others mine volition be meliorate informed ?
If so, why couldn't an appreciation of how folk think in a particular office of the earth non exist i of those things?   ÂÂÂ
And why is following that through cavalier ?  ÂÂÂ
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>I go on to agree with the sentiments expressed by steve in his last posting, which pretty much mirror those of Jason Burke of The Observer on Newsnight last night. <br><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
<br>Yous hateful this Jason Burke?:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>Why I believe this war is right
Jason Burke, who has reported from many world disharmonize zones, argues that the Iraqi people deserve to be saved
http://observer.guardian.co.great britain/iraq/sto … 61,00.html
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<br>The problem with your "legitimate beefs, illegitimate means" arroyo is this:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>It is a mistake to call terrorists “Islamistsâ€ÂÂ
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Grasshopper
"Cavalier..patronising.. snippy…high-handed …more-knowledgeable-than-k mental attitude"
If that'southward how you observe my posting, then there's not much I can do near information technology, other than to say information technology was responding to some very strongly-expressed opinions and conclusions which to me did not seem to be very well informed, on the basis of my own feel of the region and its nationals over the final 20 years.
Do I retrieve I'm meliorate informed than those opinions?  On this, actually yep I think I am, from personal feel rather than just book-smarts.
Am I trying to cease those opinions being expressed ?  No – I'm trying to put them right, simply every bit they (and you) are trying to put me correct.
Am I as a result more than condescending / patronising / snippy than anyone else ?  I promise not – I don't think I've ever played the man rather than the ball on here, including on this topic, only show me which bit if you lot think otherwise, and I'll expect over again and happily apologise if I can see it.
On the substance of the intervention in Iraq, we're at 1 that its all about oil – nobody but the indigenous folk will have any interest in the Middle E later on the oil has gone, other than as regards the shipping routes passing by.
Since its all about oil, its also nearly who has their optics fix on that oil, and through what ways. ÂÂÂ
My reading is that the great unspoken element in the long game (and they are very skilful at playing it) is China, and that they take three things to play with – their (increasing) military machine manpower, their fabric wealth, and their distribution of nuclear capability.   In this context its interesting that Iran and North Korea were the other two named in the Axis of Evil.
I don't buy the "spread democracy for its own sake" line.
I remember what the The states has washed in going into Iraq is to basically set up it up to re-run what happened when the British offset put Iraq together in 1920 from the Ottoman provinces of Basra, Baghdad and Mosul.
I think this is their chess-game response to how they read the long game with Prc and the medium game with Iran.
all-time regards
wit <br>
- Total Posts 2164
Ian, Steve
From your postings, both of yous take bought the line that what's happening is "Muslims vs the Due west".  ÂÂÂ
Information technology isn't – as most Muslims in the Centre East and around the world are trying to get across.
They are deeply insulted by statements that in that location is " widespread tacit support/sympathy from Muslim communities around the world for the remaining hardliners".
Ian thinks that "the Iraqis – the insurgents bated – are a cowed people, formerly cowed by Saddam Hussain, and cowed now past the occupying The states and United kingdom armies"
Steve says that <br>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>"cease to station your troops in the centre e and Transitional islamic state of afghanistan and stop propping upwards dictatorships and puppet governments in what are accepted equally being Arab countries".
…..if we were seen to exist taking away these degradations and treating muslims like they have the right to choose their own path rather than living under our thumbs, Bin Laden and his men might find less support and fewer places to hibernate<br><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
These are the kind of "frog in a bucket" views that delight the radicalists.
I'll say it again – the issues for the ordinary peoples of Republic of iraq and Afghanistan are not – and never accept been – "muslim vs infidel", however much the radicalists (including the Taleban) dear to put that overlay on them.
They are rather ethnic, tribal and nationalist problems, and the economic fallout from those problems.
Steve, I don't know who you lot call up accepts Afghanistan as an Arab country – Pushtuns, Tajiks, Uzbeks, Turkoman, Hazara, Aimaq, Baluchi and Nuristani yeah: but the merely Arabs are the Al Quaeda imports.
Iraq is mainly Arab – as to 75% – but you'll likewise find 18% are Kurds, and the other seven% are made up of Assyrians, Turkoman, Armenians, Persians and a number of smaller ethnic groups (including currently maybe upwards to 250,000 Coalition troops).  ÂÂÂ
Ian seems to call back the US/U.k. armies are operating a authorities of terror on the Iraqi population of 25 million who are united in being cowed.  That seems a rather unique interpretation of the popular Iraqi support for trying to get a democracy going, getting your own ground forces and police strength going, getting your electricity and water back, your oil economy going, all the while having to battle the attacks coming at you from …..er, the United states of america and United kingdom regular army???  Or is it that the U.s.a./UK armies are forcing an unwilling 25 million folk at gunpoint into getting going their own government / army / law / electricity / water / economy, etc ??
<br>The reality is that there is a very big reason why, since 1967, whatever Arab group or regime that has wished to give itself a "revolutionary" or "progressive" epitome has had to present itself equally opposed to the Due west in full general and the U.s. in particular.
It has nix to do with religion.   What its to exercise with is the deeply hurt pride, something that resulted across the Arab earth from the exposure of the hollowness of Arab nationalist claims in the deeply ignominious defeat suffered by the Arab armies – and nearly particularly all of those that failed to show up – in 1967 against Israel. ÂÂÂ
Iraq for example sent but a token force because its crack troops had to stay at home to guard Saddam confronting a insurrection – and that story was widely repeated in the region.  ÂÂÂ
It gave the lie to the mantra of "all Arab brothers" – something that was ever mainly lip service, merely which had never previously been so humiliatingly shown to be such.  It was simply at that fourth dimension that the US became widely identified with Israel – the US was and remains the face-saving scapegoat.
<br>Steve, you may run across an Arab world of  "dictatorships and boob governments" propped upwardly by the The states. ÂÂÂ
In my experience the peoples of the Arab world don't retrieve that way for 1 second.  They know the volatility of their earth and the fashion that – irrespective of what the US or anyone else may want – it is their own national, tribal, ethnic make-ups that establish (and dis-establish) the rulers of their respective states.   ÂÂÂ
Don't confuse the rhetoric with the underlying reality – the locals certainly don't.
Optics wide open, ears tight shut.
all-time regards
wit<br>
- Total Posts 2164
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>“Our bulletin to you is articulate, strong and last: there will be no salvation until you withdraw from our land, stop stealing our oil and resource and end back up for infidel [Arab] rulers,â€ÂÂ
- Total Posts 2164
When the same driving licence consequence came upward in Florida in 2003, the veiled 1 lost.
http://www.courttv.com/trials/freeman/v … l_ctv.html
although a non-cistron in the case, the post-obit was an interesting scrap of side information :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Ms Freeman told the courtroom that she permitted no photos in her house, and that she coloured over pictures of people on cereal boxes with a felt-tip pen.
"Wearing a religious veil is a peaceful, minor human activity; I am non a threat to public safe because of practising Islam," she said in a argument.
However, she admitted she was photographed without a veil in 1998 when she received a suspended judgement for battering two girls in her care.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/international … 11,00.html
<br>best regards
wit
- Full Posts 2164
Hi Aranalde
Very sensible approach – to those with traditional British values.
The only problem is that Islam is quite unlike a faith like, say, Christianity, in that Islam admits of nil "to return unto Caesar".
The Shari'a is the sole and unified trunk of commandments – religious, legal, moral, social., all rolled-upwards – given past God to mankind through the Prophet Mohammed.  It as much governs the terms on which y'all do business, as how you behave in marriage and in respect of your family, equally how you deal with non-believers, as how you should pray.
If the police force isn't in the Qur'an, its in what the Prophet said and did (hadith), or in consensus of stance the customs (ijma), or analogical reasoning (qiyas).  ÂÂÂ
Since only about 80 verses of the Qur'an deal with legal topics regarding secular matters, and fifty-fifty fewer requite specific legal precepts (eg fulfil your contracts), and since the world of Mohammed was somewhat unlike from today'south world, in practice Shari'a is determined by consensus of the community, as informed by clerics explaining the Qur'an and the hadith.  (I say that having spent much of the past xx years trying legally to bridge that world with the world of English law).
When it comes to God-given law (albeit interpreted and expanded past man) vs man-fabricated police, there'due south no contest for the devout Muslim, and then it becomes crucial as to what extent British man-made law is accepted every bit the consensus of the particular community.
Which goes back to the understanding of, and perspective given on British culture. ÂÂÂ
Education is vital to that process and I suggest the way things take gone under UK multiculturalism as practised to date has resulted in a disaffected youth which has lost the culture of their parents, merely not really taken up the British culture of a particular type of ramble monarchy (yup, that's our political classification). ÂÂÂ
And then they expect to assert a distinctive character by identifying with the umma, the worldwide Muslim community, which is a politically unachievable dream of extremists rather than anything real.
best regards
wit<br>
- Total Posts 2164
NV
The question is what being tolerant of others really ways in this context to someone of your declared liberal persuasion.
For case, within the expanded definition of liberalism to "things which touch those that I know and wider  'communities' which I am or feel a office of",  where would the post-obit fit in:
–  honour killings / rapes<br>-  female circumcision<br>-  forced marriages
–  the fatwa on Salman Rushdie
–  ritual slaughter of animals
–  the concentration of immigrant children inside a few schools
–   the curriculum and the attendance at such schools left to the immigrant civilization, including what is taught as the mother linguistic communication?
<br>As regards the last two, yous may recall the Bradford headmaster Ray Honeyford, who in 1983 wrote a series of articles for the right-leaning Salisbury Review attacking the multicultural policy Bradford had adopted in response to Muslim demands. ÂÂÂ
He objected to the way children were withdrawn from school for long holidays "at home", and also to the Council ending a bussing policy that distributed Muslim children every bit around the city'south schools.
After a wave of protests by Muslim parents he was forced to have early retirement.
There's an assay from 2003 of what happened in the subsequent 20 years at:
http://www.thisisbradford.co.uk/bradfor … -lang.html
<br>Is this a satisfactory situation from your liberal standpoint, and if not would yous insist on a more assimilationist civilisation ?
When the Chairman of the Committee for Racial Equality does a 180 degree turn from multiculturalism being inviolable to multiculturalism being expressionless, and is supported in that change of mind by other liberals,  sure its a modify of opinion by some individuals –  but I suggest it’due south a alter that'southward likely to take more than impact than you or me changing our stance. ÂÂÂ
all-time regards
wit<br>
- Total Posts 2164
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>I accept never actually said that you are racist Dave, merely that the content of the original posting on here was……….
I make no apologies for beingness a tolerant liberal……….
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NV, if you want to be a "tolerant liberal",  then I fear the earth has moved on from under you – your beau liberals in fact did a volte face on multiculturalism near a year agone, since when it has no longer been "racist" to oppose it:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,36 … 61,00.html
<br>If it was yesterday the liberal position to say:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>"If I don't like how you live your life, fine, only unless it really ***** me up on a regular footing, I don't really care. <br><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
this is now reclassified every bit "I'g alright Jack"-ism –  the liberal position today is that agile steps must exist taken to avoid ghetto-isation and to inculcate certain ethnic cadre cultural values among immigrants to the Britain and their offspring.
Principal amidst these is that, say what you similar nigh British civilization – and folk accept on this thread –  historically information technology doesn't practise bombings and assassinations.
That unfortunately cannot be said of the cultures existence imported from places like Pakistan, Somalia, etc, where violence within the customs is endemic as a style to seek to promote political and religious objectives.
<br>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>"The right to get out" must be a new concept…..<br>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
ACR1, that right  wasn't enjoyed by those backside the Berlin Wall / Iron Curtain, and isn't enjoyed  today in those countries where you lot withal need a visa to exit (Red china, Saudi Arabia, etc)  –  somehow I doubt many of those folk would exist also impressed to be told the right to leave is a new concept in rights.
best regards
wit<br>
- Total Posts 2164
IMHO the answer to "London bombings – why did they happen?" is non to exist found in debating geo-political bug.
A number of posters on this thread seek to respond the question by basically going down the path that in that location are no enemies, only friends whose grievances we haven't yet accommodated, and and so launch into bashing Bush/Blair/Sharon. ÂÂÂ
Well, in this case IMHO there are real enemies and that kind of approach doesn't work.
First, there is no equation of force as exercised by a state and force as exercised by an individual.  The essence of a society is that force is reserved to the state (imperfect though it may be, the state  has a autonomous mandate for its international likewise every bit its national activities), and individuals can't become around making private decisions to hurt and kill based on their individual mind state. ÂÂÂ
Second, seems to me the immediate questions are:<br>a.   who are these disaffected youths around the UK?<br>b.   what end are they trying to reach?<br>c.   who or what makes them think they're justified in using violence to achieve it?<br>d.   what pushes them into a suicidal tendency in using that violence?
<br>They seem to be mainly second/3rd generation immigrants who are Muslims.  They seem to be in a far greater generation gap than the ethnic population. The parents want them to stick by the old ways, language and apparel, and eventually to render to their ancestral homelands, from which they were forced rather than chose to move.  The kids on the other hand hanker afterwards the freedoms of other children effectually them.   Take the youngest suicide bomber Hasib Hussain – eighteen years sometime and deeply religious (twice visited Mecca) but had also been arrested for shoplifting and liked to go high on marijuana.  They cease upwardly with a double life, strangers both to their parents and the country they live in.  ÂÂÂ
They stay away from their local mosque merely are attracted past radical groups similar Hizb ut-Tahrir – banned in Germany and Holland just the largest extremist grouping in the UK.  From Shiv Malik in the New Statesman:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>Unlike Britain's mainstream Muslim clerics, most of whom are foreign born and obsessed with getting you to rote-acquire the Koran, groups like Hizb are in touch on with the young: they don't insist on dress codes, long beards and prayers five times a day…..most important, they offer an intense sense of purposeful belonging.
They cultivate the idea that Muslims all belong to one customs – the Umma – with one clear (if totally unrealistic) political goal: the triumph of the caliphate (an Islamic super-state, covering not just the Eye eastward merely too large parts of Europe.).  "Work for the caliphate", Hizb tells its recruits. "The caliphate volition restore honour to your mothers and sisters"<br> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Sure, its easier for these groups to operate if they can signal to British or US soldiers "killing your brothers in the Umma", just realistically (and I base this comment on my own ongoing conversations over years with Saudis, Egyptians, Jordanians, Iranians, Lebanese, Iraqis) the reality is that most Muslims practice not really see a single Umma, rather their own tribe/ nation first. None of them concur with annihilation that involves the taking of human being life.
From the Guardian:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
….according to Anne Marie Oliver, a leading expert on the suicide bomb phenomenon, in the cease its psychological factors that turn an aroused youth into a suicide bomber.  There is a sense of pride  at having been selected by an Al-Quaeda recruiter for such an honour.  Nearly importantly, there is the element of ecstatic esprit that keeps the group together….Look at the CCTV pictures and you see them smile.  They look like a group of friends going on holiday.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<br>  ÂÂÂ
The way to cure the UK suicide bomber threat would seem to be a mixture of reconnection between the generations in Muslim immigrant communities, and cracking down on the brainwashing extremists.   Non an easy or a quick process, simply very necessary.
If the domestic threat is neutralized, the foreign-based threat will exist easier to handle.
best regards
wit <br>
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